All what "Democracy and Class Struggle" write about Ukraine is only part of the truth. Ukraine "Borotba" is revisionist org. That, what they say about february's seizure of power by nationalists is truth. But DNR and LNR is not revolution. They are servants of russian imperialism. They did nothing for the working class. Ukraine - is war of 3 imperialist - Russia and USA, Europe. This redistribution of Ukraine.I say , as a Marxist with Ukraine.Sorry, for bad English.
Thank you for your comment - you say you are a marxist in the Ukraine.For marxists the internal contradiction are key to understanding social developments, hence understanding the contradictions between the oligarchs and the people in the Ukraine is principal.External forces take advantage of those internal contradictions like US/NATO Imperialism and Russian ImperialismOne of the contradictions within the Ukrainian State was the plurality of national questions and regional issues and in 1994 Donetsk and Lugansk voted for a Federal Ukraine which could have created a Ukrainian State which reflected those differences which have now become serious contradictions.Needless to say the Oligarchic Ukrainian State ignored those issues.The final straw came in Februry 2014 and broke the camels back of the Ukrainian Unitary State with the Junta seizing power in Kiev.The democratic act of self defence of Donetsk and Lugansk against the Kiev Junta were met with fullscale military assault and not dialogue for a re- restructured Ukrainian State.Your statement that DNR an LNR did nothing for the working class is untrue - you only need to read the constitution of the DNR wriiten by Litvinov a communist which calls for public ownership of DNR resources by the people of the DNR - and also how DNR in practice has stopped the futher privatisation of the Heath service in Donetsk.Its conflict with local Oligarch Akmetov a supporter of the Ukrainian Oligarch in Chief Poroschenko speaks to its anti oligarchic orientation - and subject to actual military and economic conditions DNR will take over Akmetov's property in full or part.The people of Donetsk and Lugansk are not mere servants of Russian Imperialism has you suggest and were recently pressurised by Russia in return for humanitarian aid to stop their victorious assault on Kiev Junta military forces.DNR and LNR were trying to create a geographically sustainable independent States. Russian wants a dependent DNR and LNR not an independent one with radical pro working class policies.Therefore while Russia interferes in DNR and LNR it is to constrain and not develop fully independent states there.Akmetov still has friends in the Russian Oligarchy who helped him prevent Mariupol one of his economic bases falling into hands of Donbass forces being fearful of expropriation there as wel as Donetsk.Concerning Borotba their analysis of the Ukraine comes nearest to reality of actual sitaution and contains a critique of Russian involvement as well as that of US/NATO imperialism.The ideology of Borotba needs further development to reflect situation in Ukraine and DNR and LNR and has comrade Shapinov has self critically stated they were unprepared for outbreak of People's War in DNR and LNR.If they had developed more orienation towards Marxsm Leninism Maoism and PPW they could have played a principal role in miliary struggle.Many communsts especially in Lugansk abandoned the KPU and bravely joined the People's War.Clearly there is a People's War without the ideology of Marxism Leninism Maoism in DNR and LNR and Ukraine Without a revolutionary party progess is highly problematic.Borotba shows greatest potential to develop into such a party despite their revisionist baggage.This is why the Ukrainian State has singled them out for repression.Concerning truth it is always partial and never complete as a Marxist you should know that absolute truth is pure metaphysics.We have never claimed to tell the whole truth just the truth that is partial to the working class that reflects reality.Not bourgeois lies which claim to be the whole truth in true metaphysical fashion has exemplfied by the Kiev Junta.
Yes. Signs of the People's War in Donetsk there. But this people's war Russian chauvinists are trying to send in the right direction, to serve the interests of the imperialists. And for them it goes. There is fighting hundreds of Russian mercenaries and volunteers. And volunteers are not left. Cossacks and Orthodox fanatics and others. Yes, in the constitution of the DNI is a striving towards socialism. But no one will be able to realize. Who represents the interests of the masses? In eastern Ukraine, the Communists do not have or they are connected with the Russian chauvinists. "Borotba" was not ready for this uprising. A Russian imperialism was ready for it. And he uses it for his own purposes. Borotba also has a clear ideological position.Shapin - Maoist (kind of), many other Trotskyists. Euromaidan, incidentally, also reflected the interests of some of the proletarians. Many workers at the Western Ukraine go to work in Europe. But it's got chauvinists Ukraine, who represent the interests of finance capital. I support donetskih and Lugansk people, but the DNR and LNR did not reflect their interests.They reflect the interests of the bourgeoisie. And the Communists in the DNI and LC is not a big impact. Not always after "February" comes the "October". This is confirmed in 2007 and Nepal. Although, I could be wrong.P.S. Why do you call the Kiev government junta? Junta - the power of the military.Sorry for the bad english.
I use the word junta to reflect the violent militias that brought the Kiev Puschists to power.I think we agree that Shapinov is the nearest thing to a Maoist in the Ukraine in his political positions.There is competition between right and left in Donetsk and Lugansk and it ceratinly was a failure that the Left was unprepared for People's War which was temporarily hijacked by the rightists.But has Russia's position has become clear as an obstacle to fully independent DNR and LNR the left has opportunities it did not have a few months ago to develop their politics.Whether it takes it opportunties and develops more comrades like Shapinov only the future wil tell.Even miltary victory is no guarantee of progress unless linked to striggle for socialism and I agree with your point about Nepal which proves the point.I disagree with you about the Maidan has this was a second edition of a colour revolution completely under control of US NATO Imperilism and US State Deprtment.The revolt in DNR and LNR has more autonomy and sometimes thank goodness they do not listen to Russia and act in their own best interests and not Russia's which all times seeks a compromise like at Minsk.If you support the people of Donetsk and Lugansk you should support their struggle by supporting Communist Party of Donetsk and Borotba and the comrades of Lugansk Workers Front.
"For marxists the internal contradiction are key to understanding social developments, hence understanding the contradictions between the oligarchs and the people in the Ukraine is principal.External forces take advantage of those internal contradictions like US/NATO Imperialism and Russian Imperialism"It's about Euromaidan. Look at the protesters demands of students in the beginning of the Maidan (before the arrival of the ultra-chauvinist groups). General democratic demands. The same hatred of the oligarchs, the requirement of lustration and naive (and naive, because politically illiterate) belief in the European Union.Students, in my understanding, this stratum of society that reflects the interests of walking around the labor society. As an example: the Cultural Revolution in China - the masses were the ideas of communism and socialism itself was built (being determines consciousness). But the events in Tiananmen Square (1989) has not been so.The country was already capitalism and therefore the students were liberal demands (mostly). Therefore, at the beginning of Independence, was a reflection of the ideas of the masses in my understanding.But again, because of the absence of the left (except small groups of anarchists), the imperialists were able, with the help of ultra lead the protest and make a "color revolution" and put some other oligarchs instead.But even its battalions, the National Guard under its (Kyiv Junta) rebels against authority. In the National Guard was already rebellion 9 (http://rian.com.ua/trend/soldier_protest), some battalions did not follow orders. Although very unlikely that there will be an uprising in the Ukrainian army.Another problem in the DNR and LNR - growing chauvinism Ukrainians and vice versa."In a single action of the proletarians of the Great Russian and Ukrainian free Ukraine is possible without such unity, it is out of the question" - Lenin.And in Odessa on May 2, the whole world has seen what is expressed in the growing chauvinism Ukrainians to Russian (though it burned and not Russian).Agree with your position on DNR and LNR, but Litvinov rather petty bourgeois figure, his ideas are not Maoism, and something like Hugo Chavez. "We must respect the right of private property."source: http://dnr.today/news/boris-litvinov-u-nas-dolzhna-byt-rabotosposobnaya-i-effektivnaya-zakonodatelnaya-vlast/ | Press Center the DNR © http://dnr.today
Thank you comrade this has been a useful exchange and I feel we have much basic agreement although we may have tactical differences we have strategic agreement.I agree with you Litvinov has much revisionist baggage.Occilations on the expropriation of Akmetov industries in Donetsk with DNR taking a majority stake and leaving minority to private capital create confusion.I like your Litvinov Chavez analogy.However the military question is the dominant one and here Russia has too much influence and power over DNR and LNR because the economic organisation question and supplies. This could have been organised better in DNR and LNR.The organisation of an internal War Economy for Donetsk and Lugansk and less dependence on Russia would also allow for more freedom of action against Oligarchs like Akmetov who still has many Moscow Friends.Concerning Maidan the subjective intentions of those participating may have been honest intially but with John McCain etc supporting it became obvious that objectively this was a color revolution mark 2 under control of US NATO Imperialism.The absence of a Revolutionary Marxist Leninist Maoist Party in the Ukraine makes the future problematic but we must encourage Borotba, Communist Party Of Donetsk, Workers Front of Lugansk in a revolutionary self reliant direction and i feel the logic of events will push them towards a deeper and better understanding of revolutionary communism and throw off all revisionist baggage in the long term.Of course we must use the pessimism of intelligence has Gramsci would say to clearly point out the shorcomings and failings on the military , political and economic front in DNR and LNR but we MUST also employ our optimism of the will to assist them in any way we can to bring them success.it is important for Ukrainian and Russian Working class in true spirit of Lenin's words you quoted to work together to reignite the struggle for socailism in Ukraine and Russia.I feel the Donbass holds out that possibility.
And thank you for the dialogue and the good that we have found a common language, though not great odds. But with the joint struggle of the working people of Russia and Ukraine have problems. Few of the Communist Party in Russia support the people's war in the Donbas. Many reject every national movement, popular uprisings and only recognize uprising led by a communist.Ideas of Maoism in the Ukraine is not popular. As in Russia. Now, there are three main areas of revisionism, Trotskyism, Stalinism and communism Khrushchev. Similarly, you could see an eerie marginalization in Donbas and in other parts of Ukraine. For example, the unification of the ideas of socialism and the monarchy, the naming of the USSR Stalin period monarchy.This is a huge problem in Ukraine. Khrushchev and still later revisionism catastrophically undermining the revolutionary people. In fact in 2014 the first outbreak of Donbass revolutionary, the first people's war in Ukraine. There were still people that you hardly know, a group of revolutionaries in Odessa marksiskih 2002. going to raise the national uprising in Odessa.Special forces were defeated. One of them was on May 2 at the home unions. Survived. So far, uprisings take place on the former Soviet Union or under the ideology of religion (Chechnya, Donbass) or without Marxists ideology (Zhanaozen 2011 Turkmenistan in 2000 (? I do not remember, information about the uprising Turkmen mass media covered). This I write to you for help . What would be better understood what is happening. We have the opportunity to rekindle Donbass people's war, but only if the proletariat realizes its interests. "The class should be ready for its domination" - Karl Marx. The proletariat Donbass not ready. And whether prepare them for this Lugansk front of workers, the Communist Party of Donetsk and Borotba. Only if the head the movement. If they find the main contradiction between ordinary and militia officers, between ordinary people of Donbass and the new government ... only then will the proletariat be able to take power into their own hands and do not adjust to the Ukrainian or Russian rule. Do not choose the masters and seize power. Well, as the saying goes "Rome Was not Built in a Dai".
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